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[maplemood]

I spent most all of my free time last week writing 12kish words of Hades/Persephone babyfic and about killed my brain in the process--it's been a while since I wrote anything over 2,000-3,000 words and finals week is coming up FAST--but also I regret nothing because Hades/Persephone babyfic. I don't know if anyone has an undying need for the most dysfunctional couple ever to start procreating, but if you do...here it is. As always there are a whole bunch of things I'd fix if I had more time/knew how to, but overall I'm not completely ashamed of it, which is always a good thing. I just wish there was more kid/babyfic in the Hadestown fandom specifically, because I, for one, do have an undying need to see the most dysfunctional couple ever with babies, and writing your own fics is great but never quite the same as reading someone else's. 

So, yeah. I think I'm going through the worst of my Hadestown obsessive spiral right now, which isn't super ideal when it comes to the timing of final exams and papers but is at least a nice distraction. Also, we've just started to get more spring-like weather around here, so listening to the recording on repeat feels especially appropriate. :) The cyclical nature of the story--at least when it comes to the gods; Orpheus and Eurydice don't get the luxury of trying over and over and over again--makes me so hopeful and sad at the same time; so does the theme of art being both enough and absolutely not enough. I'm probably biased in her favor, anyway, but Eurydice doesn't make any choices that I probably wouldn't make if I were in the same situation, and the fact that she makes what seems to be the best choice at the time and ends up trapped in Hadestown for eternity...if it comes down to a choice between your true love and, y'know, having enough food to get you through the winter, I can't see all that many people deciding any differently than she did. That being said, I do love Orpheus. I love pretty much everyone, and there's no clear-cut villain in the story, even when it comes to Hades, and it makes the whole thing 100x better and 100x sadder.  

Comments

[toujours_nigel]

\o/

[maplemood]

It owns my soul now and I don't even mind. :)

[acequeenking]

Listen, as someone who is also in anHadestown obsessive spiral and LOVES babyfic: you are doing the gods work. I got the subscription notification for that this morning, squeed at my desk, and then spent all lunch devouring it (and I'll leave you a review once I get more than GUH). That fic was the highlight of the day and hurt so good. So...thank you for your sacrifice.

And uh...I absolutely will write you babyfic with Hades and Persephone. I may uh...have already written one ficlet in a short story collection I haven't posted yet and and am in the process of writing a really long-form one that deals with them having Zagreus so uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh clearly this is a niche I like a REAL LOT and will gladly wallow in with you forever

The fact that no one is, entirely, the bad guy, is honestly what drives me to love it so much. Even Hades, who definitively is the antagonist, has understandable reasons for doing what he's doing, even if what he's doing is absolutely terrible. I root for everyone in it, and I hope that the gods actually do make it through during this cycle at some point. I don't think anyone can blame Eurydice for the decision she makes, honestly.

[maplemood]

"Hurt so good" is pretty much the goal I'm hoping for in all of my fics, so that's great to hear!! I'm so glad you liked it and also that there's someone else who's just as obsessed with Hades and Persephone having a baby together, because...I mean, it would be such a hot mess, but also, they could make it work! I just know they could. And I have feelings about them both being very unconventional but loving parents, so.

Eeee!! I'll be waiting on both stories with bated breath, also I'm really happy you're doing Zagreus because even though I decided to go with Makaria in my fic I'm also really in love with them having a baby boy...particularly because I think how Hades would feel about raising a son would significantly change after the events of the musical. There's so much to dig into there! Also, just...Hades/Persephone + babies. It'll never not be a winning combo for me.

I think that's one of the biggest strengths of the story, and that's one of the reasons why I get a little frustrated when people try to draw really specific parallels between what's going on in the musical and current events. Not because it isn't relevant to today--it absolutely is--but because it's not a story with a clearly defined "bad guy" in the sense that you're not supposed to root for Hades. I think you absolutely are, because he's the antagonist but at the end he's also just another guy who loves his wife and who tries.

(Also, it's pretty wonderful to have friended someone who's going through the obsession spiral at the exact same time--now I know I'll always have at least one person to gush to.:))

[acequeenking]

FRIEND SPIRAL! FRIEND SPIRAL! Let us go down this road together. This road way down unnnndderr the grooounnnndd

Your goals are the best goals. <3 I really admit how you write them being as gloriously messy and resentful and failing to communicate, but also trying, so hard, to communicate and to catch themselves in the bad patterns. You really write them absolutely perfect to canon; I could 100% see that as a sequel to the play.

Oh man, I think I messed up in my exuberance a bit — I've got Zag, but he's an adult for most of it and only a baby in flash-backs- and was a baby pre-canon, sadly. The other I've got with the furies as their children in a one-shotI REALLY LOVE BABYFIC FOR THESE TWO EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE SO HARD. I should have the one shot w/the furies babies up in that collection thursday and the other is...really long so hopefully I uh will finish that in a couple months. XD;

But IGNORING ALL THAT I really want to talk about how you feel his raising a son would change post-canon because I agree but I can't figure out, exactly, how it would. I feel like pre-canon Hades would get real hung up on the heir thing and have a lot more uh...toxic masculinity/greed in his lessons (show emotions p much never, son). I can also see him being real controlling, especially if the kid(s) stay with him. Which, I mean, he would be the more stable parent as far as staying in one place? But also wow imagine being a kid and literally never seeing the sun.

What I find fascinating about Hades in the musical is he is the one who succeeds at making an effort. He makes a sacrifice at the end to save his relationship with his wife and while canon leaves it open as to whether he succeeds at waiting, I think an attempt is surely made. He tries and that she leaves clutching his flower saying wait for me, I think, is a sign that those two are gonna eventually make it, if not be miraculously better right away; they both want to succeed and they're both vulnerable with one another in a way that the younger couple doesn't quite get.

I find the modern politicing frustrating too — not only because the song everyone points to was written ages ago (if, admittedly, it's still timely), but because I think Hades is more interesting if you take him not as a pale Trump stand-in, but as an examination of some pretty damn ancient ideas of kingship/leadership/marriage. Hades is old as literal dirt and he's got some old ass ideas of what makes a man and a leader. I'd rather see that explored tbh than WOW ITS A TRUMP CRITIQUE.

[maplemood]

Oh, I'm so glad you love that, because their messiness is my favorite part, I think (and something that I think you capture really perfectly in your fics, too). To me, the kind of cyclical nature of their whole story really ties in realistically with how relationships actually work--like, they'll never be perfect, and there'll always be things about your partner that drive you up the wall, but if you both just try, there's the possibility of making it work even after years and years of misunderstandings. And I do think Hades & Persephone will make it work, but I don't think they'll ever get to a point where they won't have issues with communication or abandonment or jealousy--they'll just learn to handle them better, hopefully.

Them having an adult kid is just as delightful to me, honestly! (And I've been toying around with the idea of, at some point, writing a sequel to "At the Turning of the Year" with Makaria as an older kid, if maybe not completely grown up yet.) Like, growing up with those two as parents--especially those two as parents pre-patching things up like they do in the musical...it would definitely be an experience! And I just imagine that their family would be all kinds of fractured but, also, really close in a nobody-messes-with-us-but-us kind of way. AND THE FURIES AS THEIR KIDS...so perfect. I'm totally with you in that I'm forever looking for an excuse to give them babies, even though I know that they'd be the least-prepared parents ever.

Exactly! I think Hades pre-canon would be loving, but a lot more traditional/toxically masculine and also possibly more...distant? Not necessarily out of a real-men-don't-show-emotion kind of way, but more so because his own childhood was pretty horrific and his relationship with his dad was (too put it WAY too mildly) not the greatest, and I think he'd just have a lot of anxiety related to that that he wouldn't really be able to communicate? Whereas post-canon, where he's making a genuine effort to do better, I think he'd be willing to open up a bit more, even though it would make him hugely uncomfortable. Plus, I can't help but think that any son he did have post-canon would sort of remind him of Orpheus a bit, at least in the sense of being this young and inexperienced but passionate and good-hearted person, and there'd be all kinds of angsty-guilty-but-ultimately-positive layers to that.

Hades would definitely be the steadier parent, but I really can't see Persephone letting him get away with keeping the kids all year--and I think, even if he wouldn't admit it, he'd know that insisting on it would hurt her too much. At the same time, Persephone pre-canon seems like she'd be the type of mom who's sometimes prone to getting embarrassingly drunk/accidentally forgetting her kids in a restaurant or something, and that whole knowing-she's-not-a-perfect-parent-and-knowing-HE-knows-she's-not-a-perfect-parent-and-is-also-judging-her-for-it would be a MAJOR source of tension.

Exactly! What I love about the parallels between Hades and Orpheus is that they both try, and, ironically, it's the older, morally jaded dude who actually succeeds...though the show is really timely, I'm much more interested in the personal dynamics of the characters and the implications of those, so when I saw that headline that was something like "Hadestown Stars Trump and Takes Place in Hell" I was kind of like "...that's a pretty gross oversimplification, but okay." Obviously people should be able to read their own meanings into it, but Hades is NOT Trump and that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

(Also, I love your icon! And at some point I'll need to find a Hadestown/Amber Gray icon, too...)

[acequeenking]

Yessss get ALL the Amber Grey icons. Honestly, her face is just gorgeous, honestly, and I love how expressive she is. (Sorry it took me so long to get back to writing a reply to this! Thinking about your thoughts I have been grinning like a mad idiot, if its any consolation. :D )

The messiness is really the key draw for me. To be honest, I'm not sure I would have gotten into Hadestown to such a large extent if I'd heard the younger couple's arc first. Fortunately, I got here crash-landing through Spotify and hit Way Down, Hadestown and then Chant. I do agree that the failings in their relationship are quite human; they always have failings, but its how they handle them that matters, and during canon they're...clearly not handling them very well. I don't see them ever having it honestly easy; its easier to backslide than to actually acquire skills permanently...but I think if they keep trying and putting in the effort, they'll get there. Eventually. I don't think the Orpheus is like, a magic switch in their relationship, but I think its a sign that they both want to be better, and will put in the effort. But I don't think to put in the effort = automatically always peaches and cream.

And having kids, I think, would be a strain. Especially with one of them having to go so often, and one of them having to be alone; I think Hades would have an even harder time if he lost his entire family every spring, in addition to his wife.

If they had kids pre-canon I do agree with Hades. His relationship with his father is something I find eternally fascinating and would read entire books on, tbh? He's got a terrible father example and then he winds up in charge of taking care of his father for basically the rest of his immortal life, and I'd love to know what sort of relationship they wind up having, and how that informs his relationship with his kids. (Or what like, he thinks of Persephone in light of what happened to Chronos and Rhea? Like wow, neither of these damn two have a happy love story pretty much anywhere in their history.) I think pre-canon Hades would really struggle to show his emotions, thanks to a lovely cocktail of bad family history, discomfort with emotion/anxiety, and toxic masculinity. I didn't think of him really think of Orpheus in a sort of angsty-guilty-but-ultimately-positive way and that relating to his kid, but thinking of that, I think you're right. I feel like his emotions with Orpheus will always be more complicated than Persephone's, but I do think he'd ultimately have those kind of positive feelings. (And their poor kid, I think will have no choice but to be passionate. Not gonna be an easy-going baby, no chance of that in that DNA. Lord help Hades if that kid wants to become a musician, because he's gonna go into a full-body shudder.)

I think custody would be a big issue for them, honestly. AT best, I think they'd do a sort of split custody where she has them for some of the summertime, and he has him the rest of the year. I do think Seph, especially pre-canon is the type of parent who...yeah, is not the most responsible, and probably would need Hermes and/or Demeter to help her with parental responsibilities...which would piss Hades off, I think, honestly. And the tension there would be...blizzard levels. Hope that kid/those kids like playing in the snow. I think that honestly would piss him off more than anything else, that she would abandon their kids.

LISTEN ALSO PLEASE WRITE THAT MAKARIA FIC. I would love to see how they're doing further along! And find out what the kid dresses like, because the bit about her having straw clothes or cloth-of-gold still kills me I really wonder how she'd deal with their seasonal arrangement, and dealing with Hadestown since it's very much this (fascinating!) metropolis underground with all these modern bits-and-pieces of bric-a-brac...shoved into the afterlife and unlike her parents, she didn't see that gradual build up so I imagine her perceptions of the world up top/world under the ground would be really different than her parents.

Growing up pre-canon...oh boy. I can see it being kind of fraught and honestly I can only see that kid either being 100% anxiety, 100% of the time with control/abandonment issues to rival, well, dad's, or nihilistic "nothing matters" proto-millennial child whose only needed accessories are a middle finger firmly raised and ennui. Either way, Hermes is probably the stable uncle figure?

I HATE the trump thing. I don't think Hades is meant to be an autocrat in general, and there's some good meta on Tumblr that points out that he could just as easily be a Lenin analog, a more corrupted form of Orpheus' idealized socialism. I wish we'd get more on the character dynamics, as well. At least the Trump thing is better than the one review that called Amber a "hoochie momma" - and had to print a retraction about it.

[maplemood]

She's so expressive, and there's always so much...I think maybe "verve" is the right word...in her performances? Like, I'm convinced that woman could play a tree stump and it would be the most charismatic tree stump you'd ever seen.

Oh, definitely. I love the tragedy and sweetness of Orpheus/Eurydice a lot, but they weren't my main draw coming into the fandom AT ALL. Possibly just because I knew how the story would end and wanted to keep myself from getting too devastated at the end (I mean, I was still devastated, but) and also because the friend who introduced it to me knows me better than I know myself and was like, "You're really gonna love Hades & Persephone." There's something in me where, if canon has a couple who are at each other's throats 90% of the time, I'll want them to patch things up and get back together, and Hades/Persephone satisfied that for me in the best possible way while still being pretty realistic about how a reconciliation would play out.

OMG, but their kid could totally wind up a musician--it's definitely in the DNA when it comes to Persephone, and I think she'd try to encourage their kid's artistic aspirations while Hades would be...not opposed to it, but more of a "How are they going to make a living?" type of parent...and also probably thinking that it's totally part of his penance to have a kid who ended up so much like Orpheus. :)

Custody would be such a massive issue for them, especially pre-canon, and I agree with everything you said. I think Hades has this complex where he has to be as self-sufficient as possible and prove to everyone else that he doesn't need anybody (except, y'know, Persephone, but they don't talk about that) and so the idea of any of the other gods having a hand in raising his own kids would really rankle. Plus there's the fact that they're his kids and the idea that Persephone would ever put them in an unsafe situation (which I don't think she would, but in her pre-canon days the possibility is always there) probably really gets under his skin. Also, it might be a bit of a generational difference, too? Because he's much older, and had a significantly more crappy childhood than Persephone probably did, so he's just inclined to be more protective, whereas she might have been a bit of a free-range kid growing up and doesn't see a problem with that?

"Hope that kid/those kids like playing in the snow" OMG now all I can think of is a happier timeline with the kids being like "Mom, Dad, make it snow!!" and Hades and Persephone starting up some kind of playful argument in order to give them enough to build a snowman. Like, you can't tell me they wouldn't spoil those kids rotten every once in a while.

I might have to try one of these days! I definitely see Makaria, as per when she was a baby, being very much a daddy's girl and taking after Hades in his love of tinkering and machinery. I feel like she might be a bit like her grandma in terms of just being...very emotionally open and frank, which is something both Hades and Persephone are kind of befuddled by at first.

Hermes would totally be the stable-yet-cool uncle, and Demeter would be the grandma who kind of hates your dad even though he's been married to your mom for literal centuries at this point. Zeus would be the charming granddad who's actually a total deadbeat and whom your mom refuses to talk to anymore. And growing up pre-canon...poor kid, I can't help but feel like they'd sort of be a combo of all three that you mentioned? Like, somehow both anxious/controlling and "Fuck it, nothing matters" all at once. Oof.

Ugh. Like...how is that ever okay? It's one thing if you don't like the character (though how anyone could dislike Persephone is beyond me, but whatever) but to say something like that is a special kind of dumb.

[acequeenking]

*comes in late, offers coffee*

I think you are EXACTLY right about two-time Tony-nominated goddess Amber Gray. She is honestly super charismatic and just puts so much life into her performance? The bits I've seen of her acting as Persephone are just - she puts all of herself into the performance. And it feels much the same for Helene, which are the only things I've heard her in. She's just got such strong acting in addition to her voice -- like it's not just that she's a good singer, but she shows such raw emotions, you know? TL:DR she's glorious and I basically want her to star in literally every Broadway show.

I kind of admire how Hades and Persephone's patch-up works; I'm not sure if you've seen it and I don't want to spoil it if you haven't? If you haven't and don't want to be spoiled I will table it but UGH MY HEART AT EPIC 3 OKAY.

And yes, I agree if their kid was artistic, Hades might not...mind?, but he'd also be like, How is this kid going to make a living because he would absolutely not want his kid to be reliant on him forever. I 100%, nay, 1000% agree on you about Hades having a self-reliability complex, and I think that may even be part of why he married so late in life. I mean, when you consider his history (in myth, but I presume it isn't that different in Hadestown) with the abusive family situation he comes out of, I can see him finding comfort in the underworld being insanely self-reliant and he is gonna provide EVERYTHING and be the BEST at EVERYTHING because he's STRONG and no one will ever use him like that again. I can see him actually being a bit terrified when he realizes oh shit, he is honest-to-Gods in love with Seph but she definitively seems to get him/get under his skin in a way no one else seems to (or seems to want to).

I feel like not just custody but actual rules and the like would also be points of contention; as you say, he had the crappiest childhood and I can see him both being That Dad Who Spoils his Kids Rotten (because he's leaning way more on the other side of what he experienced, and I think he takes a LOT of pride in being a provider for his wife/family, in this instance; I can see him thinking of himself as a self-made man?) and also being the super-Protective dad who literally has babyproofed the entire underworld, yes, everywhere. He is probably a more hands-on parent while Seph probably grew up with her mom alone in a nicer environment and I feel like she might not understand that the underworld is WAY more dangerous than like...random fields, though neither is probably good for babies randomly picking up a random thing and eating it. I can see him finding her more free-range style like...legitimately baffling at best and terrifying at worst.

I actually wonder how much older the Hadestown version of Hades is! I would assume it's quite a bit?

I feel like they probably actually fight so much that the kids wouldn't be like "Mom! Dad! Make it snow!" but also my heaaart I want it. I love the idea of the kid/kids actually being happy when mom and dad have a (play?) argument just because of FUN SNOW TIMES. I think they'd both be spoiling parents in the end - Seph doesn't strike me as great at discipline and Hades is all about that bling bling lifestyle, kinda. Def materialistic.

Hermes is probably their favorite person if only for stability, I'd imagine. I'm laughing at the description of Demeter because, well, there are some Demeters in my family line, for sure. (and I still need to reply to your excellent comment but as an aside, your Hades comment in one of your fics about him being That Guy who saves EVERYTHING including no less than 3 refrigerators outside -- yep, that's def some of my family members too. I think you called my dad out. XD) And uh hopefully one day I will finish this damn fic because he kind of is...all three. Poor kid is a bit of a basketcase, honestly, and it's only 50% his parent's fault. XD

...Okay, maybe a little more.

The triplets in the bits I've written of them have it a tiiiiny bit better for being post-canon kids and admittedly being so much work they ain't got that much of a chance to fuck it up.

It's really not okay, I think, to use that kind of term with anyone. Overall reviews have been mostly positive though, and 14 tony nominations! Way to go, Hadestown!

[maplemood]

*gladly accepts coffee*

Oh, she's SO good as Helene in Great Comet, too! I've gotten into that fandom a bit just for the fact that she's in it (and also it's a ridiculously fun and very sweet/wistful musical based on Russian literature, so what's not to love?) and GOSH--so much charm and charisma, and I'm so glad that she's getting some wider recognition now with Hadestown (also I really want to find some good Helene/Pierre fic, because I'm nothing if not a sucker for angsty, messed-up relationships).

I haven't seen it yet, but I don't actually mind being spoiled! Like, I've got a picture in my mind of how it might play out, but I'm sure whatever they actually do in the musical exceeds those expectations by 100%.

Oh man, Hades would totally be one of those "But how are they going to make a living?!" parents, while Persephone would be a bit more in the, "Eh, they'll figure it out on their own," sort of vein--it's not that she's uncaring, but I get the vibe that she has a bit more faith in people, generally, than Hades does...maybe not a whole lot more, but at least a bit. Also she'd maybe get, to a certain extent, his self-reliance complex, seeing as she seems to be fairly isolated from the other Olympians except for Hermes (and presumably her mom) while still rolling her eyes at it. Like, I feel like Persephone knows enough about what he went through to THINK she completely gets it, while still not knowing enough to completely get it. Which causes more tension, which causes more fights, which...

I tend to headcanon Hades as a couple centuries or so older than Persephone, and that that's the godly equivalent of, say, about twenty years? Just going off the age difference between the actors. I mean, assuming Hadestown sticks with the mythology on this point--and there's no reason to think it doesn't--Hades is at least old enough to be Persephone's dad. Which I'm sure was another big ol' source of tension (with their family, if not with them) when they got married.

LOL, in some ways I see Persephone and Hades as parents as that one vine that's like "What do you have?" "A knife!" "NO!" because they're both so very not used to dealing with kids and neither strikes me as the most consistent disciplinarian, though they would try, I think. I also like to think that they temper each other's worst tendencies, so Persephone convinces Hades to loosen up a bit and not babyproof every single inch of the underworld, and he helps her be more present and consistent as a parent and not let their kid run too wild. But they're definitely more spoiling parents than not. Lucky for them they've got Hermes and Demeter, who can be the more grounding influences.

I will DEVOUR your Zagreus fic whenever it's ready, honestly. I can already tell I'm going to love this dude, and just trying to imagine Hades and Persephone's reactions to this kid that they raised and had a good hand in screwing up makes me all kids of sad-happy. And the triplets! More about the triplets, please--and it's so totally true that Hades and Persephone would fight a lot less after they were born, if only because they're too tired to really work themselves into a lather like they used to. I'd also imagine that three at a time would kind of force Persephone to be a more consistent parent, because if you've got three babies and no routine you've got a storm coming, that's for sure.

[acequeenking]

It appears I am eternally late this month. Like Persephone, at least I keep coming back? I'm so sorry. I've really not had a lot of time in the last couple of weeks to sit down and type this up. :( I am greatly enjoying the convo though!

I'm pretty casual in Great Comet but I love her. I will admit that I flipped through the Great Comet book at a Barnes and Noble and very nearly bought it because it had some fun Amber interview bits and some pictures of her I hadn't seen before. NGL if they put out a Hadestown book I will probably be the first to order because damnnnn.

I'm so freaking late in replying to this I think you will have seen it by now (I recall you were going lateish may?) but: Hades pulling that flower out? DEAD. EVERY TIME. Hades mumbling because he's so unsure of himself but badly wanting to reunite with Persephone? DEAAAAAAAAAD. Hades whispering the words of Promises into her ear as someone pointed out to me while they're doing the hug-dance thing? DEAD GONE UNDER DECEASED GIVE CHARON A COIN I AM UNDONE. The end of that musical basically makes me BAWL.

Like, I feel like Persephone knows enough about what he went through to THINK she completely gets it, while still not knowing enough to completely get it. Which causes more tension, which causes more fights, which...

I hadn't really thought of this but, on reflection, I think this is absolutely true: she probably knows the barest of basics from her mama, and some details from Hades (who I can't see ever really talking about it, much, if more so with her than anyone else) and deciding she knows enough without, actually, knowing enough. I imagine he has a fair amount of trauma from that which probably keeps him close-mouthed on things that actually should be spoken which leads to conflict which leads to arguments which leads to, well... :(

Ugh, just the Titanomachy, in general, KILLS me. I still need to leave you a review of it, but I read your new Makaria fic at lunch and the bit of Demeter giving Hades some sweet stuff because she knew he had a sweet tooth from going up the way they did - heartbreaking. XD Thanks for that! Please don't ever stop I love it

Also, the politics of the Olympians in this show, which I realize is a very minor element, are also super interesting. Persephone's little headshake of don't you even think about it when Hades complains about her leaving the moment mama nature calls? Love. Seph and Hermes broship? Amazing. I'd love to see what exactly the other Olympians think of this mess that's going on between Hades and Seph; are there sides? Are people staying out of it? Why exactly are Seph and Demeter and Hades (and maybe Hermes/Orpheus?) so isolated? Hades it makes sense to be but I do get the sense that Seph and her mama are not so close with the others (who never get a callout at all?) so it makes me wonder if perhaps Hades' decision to grab her has lead to some other family problems, too, if people decide the life/death folks are just too big a mess to deal with. XD (which is saying something by Olympian standards, where hot mess is a basic Wednesday look.)

I flip flop a lot on Hades' age a lot but I think he has to be at least a couple centuries older than her at minimum, since presumably she would have been born after the Titanomachy (then again, with Zeus, who knows; one can imagine he would put sex over say, not leaving some of the people fighting in his army incapacitated by getting them pregnant). Somewhere between 2 centuries and, oh, infinity times. Amber made a comment in an article I saw today about how she and Hades have been together since Dinosaur times and while I realize it's meant to just be "oh this couple have been together for a really long time", I instantly went to BOY BUT WHAT IF THAT IS LITERAL. Like...bare minimum 66 million year relationship? Their relationship, started before there were literally any people to worship them? Blows my mind. I can't imagine literally having watched the entire earth grow and change for millions and millions of years...and watching the one person who you watched all that with start to grow away from you.

(It also makes me wonder about the logic of their aging: do they age, like mortals, but at a far slower rate? Will they one day die? If not, can they control the way they look - is Seph eternally young because her role is to be young? Is Hades' look old because people imagine death to look old?)

I do think there's a fair amount of canon basis to assume their relationship is similar to myth. I tend to write it that way because I really like the extra layer of fucked up family dynamics, though I feel a bit bad because some of the ones I'm writing no have other Olympians in and I feel a bit guilty, oddly, for being like - here's a fic for this fandom where it's like I HOPE YOU LIKE GREEK MYTHOLOGY...GUESS WHO'S APPEARING IN THIS THAT DIDN'T APPEAR IN THE MUSICAL? SURPRISE! ITS HADES MOM! =D

The point you make about them balancing one another's worst points is a really interesting one - I can see that. I think she definitively is the ONLY thing in his life that has ever quite gotten him out of his shell and he's probably the ONLY person in her life besides her mama who can basically get her into responsible adulting. I do think in some ways, like that, they're quite good for one another - but it's fascinating (and realistic) that in many ways, they are also not so good for one another. I feel like with having kids they'd have a lot of tension but also a lot of reasons maybe to try NOT to fall into their old bickering?

And part of the reason why I went for the triplets is because they kind of would have to learn some form of order, and also I literally cannot imagine a worse hell than having to take care of three babies mostly by yourself at various points of the year. It's kind of fascinating that regardless of what parent they live with, they're essentially a part-time single parent - which is a lot of stress, and, also, a lot of sadness, because whichever one isn't going to be with the kids is going to miss an awful lot of milestones. I feel like there'd be tension/jealousy with that, too, especially once the kids were old enough to decide where they wanted to be in the summer...and really, do you want to stay underground might not hold as much appeal as say, do you wanna go to the water park with grandma and go eat peaches with mama. Oof. Not exactly going to be a smooth road, is it?

Speaking of oof, I need to finish the Zag one, I've barely worked on it the past month or so because life got stressful and writing one-shots is easier. I'd like to finish it soonish and Zag is easily my favorite character in it. <3 I will try to work harder on it to finish it sooner.

Also, my god, I LOVE MAKARIA SO MUCH. Her and Hades having identical little tinkering chin-sets and being basically a chip off the old block is AMAZING, and I squee pretty much any time they're on screen together. (Especially her saying everything is her da, and Hades literally trying to get her to say H the very second Persephone is out of the room. xD)

The triplets will def get more fic because when I'm stressed, I write babyfic/kidfic. So far I've started but not finished bits of them with their parents as infants (and Hades is terrified to touch them), children (wherein a child gets sick and WHAT DO), and oddly, a couple with them at different ages with Orpheus of all people and I don't tend to write him much but ???? Who knows. I'm trying to break it up as I post it because uh - it's a lot. XD;

[maplemood]

No worries! I started my summer class this week so I totally get just having too much going on and not enough time/energy. But I'm really enjoying the conversation, too, and I'm really glad you keep coming back. :D

If they put out a Hadestown book I'll be over the moon! I just love reading about everything, from the actors to the set design to what went into making it the story that it is (Playbill has a REALLY fun article where the costume designer explains the costuming choices for pretty much all the characters, and if I could just have...an entire book where everyone involved goes into that level of detail about other aspects--like the set design and the choreography and, well, everything--I'd be one happy camper).

Yep, I saw it on the 18th of May and I still haven't fully processed the experience, honestly. It was beyond wonderful. My friend and I literally clutched at each other at the part with Hades and the flower, and every single time Hades reaches out to Persephone during Chant and she cuts him off? GOD. And when they danced! And the way they're physically mirroring Orpheus and Eurydice at the beginning of Wait for Me II (if I'm remembering the song order correctly)! I'm not over it and I'll never be over it, ever.

The idea of the gods (and Hades especially) being essentially this dysfunctional family headed by adults who are traumatized by their childhood abuse just...I feel like it works so well for Hadestown? And it goes such a long way in making Hades more understandable, why he does the things he does and why he thinks ANYONE would appreciate a gilded cage. And the politics of the Olympians--I kind of want the Anais Mitchell take on all the Greek myths now, but my guess would be that it's sort of a combo of the rift that the marriage caused and just general "it's life and death, better not get involved," and also I kind of get the sense that Persephone, Hades, and Hermes (and by implication Demeter) chose to live a little separate from everyone else even before the marriage. Maybe they just got sick of the drama? Which, I mean, they started plenty of drama of their own, so obviously that didn't work out, but.

I really, really love the idea of Hades and Persephone having been together over multiple ages and maybe even the lifespans of multiple worlds--I feel like it really fits with the "we're gonna sing it again and again" elements of the show...so they've been together for basically an eternity, and they're just too tired and too bitter to get it together sometimes, but they love each other like no one else does, and they always will. And the article you to is so good?? As much as I love Hades/Persephone, the parallels between Persephone and Eurydice are pretty glorious and also both Amber Gray and Eva Noblezada are such joys to watch/listen to/read about.

My personal headcanon is that as gods they'd age at a slower rate and probably quit aging before they got totally decrepit, but that also it's a matter of mortal perception in some ways, so like you said Persephone is comparatively young because she's a life goddess and "has" to be young; Hades is old because as death he's "supposed" to be old. That's obviously just one interpretation, though!

Gosh, don't worry about that--I live a good mythology shout-out (and also a good fucked-up family dynamic, so...)

It won't be a smooth ride, but I really, really do think they could make it work. Like, there'd be an awful lot of bumps along the way, and like you said a lot of jealousy and missed milestones, but also the fact that they live apart for half the year might also encourage them to cherish the times they do have together, and to really try to make sure they're giving their babies lots of good memories of those times. So in that way they might make more of an effort to at least outwardly keep it together, and if the did make the effort, things would probably start to slowly improve inwardly, too.

Take all the time you need, but I'm so ready for Zag! Like we already talked about, I literally can barely imagine what growing up with pre-canon Hades and Persephone would do to you as a person, but I'm excited/a little worried to find out. <3

Oh, I'm so glad you like her! I was trying to get at that specific thing little kids have, where they're enthusiastic and adorable but also A Lot and as much as you love them you sometimes want them to just go away and leave you alone for a bit. Which Persephone must especially be feeling, since she's, again, essentially a single parent for half the year. And I kind of adore the idea of Hades & Demeter being closer when they were younger, and Demeter still having some of that big-sister instinct buried down deep.

Baby/kidfic is the best and now that you mention it, I actually wrote "At the Turning of the Year" right before finals, when I was pretty stressed myself! There's just something about giving your favorite characters a baby and watching them struggle to cope that makes for the best kind of escapism. And all your story beginnings sound lovely and perfect (I'm absolutely enchanted by the idea of the triplets meeting Orpheus!) and I can't wait to read them.